Tuesday, July 21, 2009

Logging PTO winch design failures

I made a logging winch out of a Ramsey 9000 lb drum PTO winch and it didn't work out. That winch was not up to the punishment of tractor logging. I tore up 2, and spent nearly $1,000 and countless hours welding, before giving up on this idea.

Problem #1 -- The winch 0.75" drive shaft is too light for this kind of work. They break off in the PTO driveline yoke. The drive shaft is cast into the worm gear, so it's impossible to replace without replacing the worm gear, $275, a couple hours of labor, and a week of down time.
Problem #2 -- This is a slow winch with no power-out. It pulls at less than 1 fps at 1800 RPM. That's mighty slow when rewinding 100' of empty cable. I have a live PTO but no reverse, so I was always slacking off the cable by backing the tractor, just to get the winch clutch out. Sometimes the winching had pulled the tractor back against a tree or stump, trapping it there. Tractor skidding is slow enough already.
Problem #3 -- The frame I made doesn't work for lifting and skidding logs. Using the winch hook for skidding puts too much strain on the winch frame and toplink. It affects steering and traction because it throws the log's weight back on the tractor like a hoist arch would. Dropping the winch to skid logs is too much repeated hassle. Plowing logs through the dirt is land-damaging and slow.

What I would do differently--
1. Use a winch that's meant for heavier work. Recovering a 1,000 lb wheeled Jeep is not the same as yarding a 3,000 lb log uphill through slash and stumps. Make sure it's bidirectional or has a manual driveline clutch. Get a 2-speed if possible.
2. Redesign the frame. This is tricky because you need room for the PTO driveline. The log's weight needs to be on the lift bar, not aft of it. There needs to be a low arch that keeps the load close to the tractor.
3. Build it so there's some protection for the winch and tractor against the log slamming it. Logs like to lunge forward, or get into the rear tires, when skidding downhill.

One nice thing about a winch is having a variable-length cable always with you, even if you use blocks and the drive-away method instead of winching.

The winch model I used is like towtruck-wreckers use, although mine were salvaged out of 1960's military Jeeps. $400 for both winches. Each had something broken, but together they made a working winch and left me parts to repair it. I got them at a 4X4 salvage yard.
This winch has a 3/4" round drive shaft with a keyway. I ordered a special yoke for the PTO driveline, and had a machine shop put the keyway into it. $260 for the driveline, $15 for the keyway. (Expect this to cost more -- machinists usually have a shop minimum of $50.)
I built a 3-point frame using flat and angle steel. The first one wasn't heavy enough and collapsed under the stress. The second one, using angle iron from a truck frame, would withstand a cannon attack. The frame design wraps around the winch, so the winch bolts in from front and back, like it did in the Jeep bumper. This is mandatory for this type of winch. A pair of parallel vertical posts go up to the top link. The main cross member is 3/8" steel angle with ends welded in, and holes in the ends for the pins. The rear cross member has the roller fairlead mounted below it.
Note: I tried hooking up my newer Ramsey 12V 9000 lb winch off my Jeep onto the tractor. I used a 2" receiver-to-3 point hitch adapter ($60) and modified a pair of jumper cables ($35). I burned up one winch motor (&#%!!) and got very frustrated with the slow speed before abandoning that idea within a few days.
Our tractor is a 2008 Kubota L3400, 34HP, 4wd.
Now I'm looking for a "logging blade."

1 comment:

  1. Well a reason you probaly burnt up the motor beside the fact that you used jumper cables is probaly because the jeep was wired for six volt, and the kubota uses a twelve volt system.

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